The Professional Sales Mindset That Builds Trust And Revenue With Tania Cazin

Selling has a reputation problem, and we don’t fix it with louder scripts or sneakier “close” tricks. We fix it by returning to what actually works: trust, service, and a real human conversation. That’s why we brought on Tania Cazin from Stalwart Sales Training and Consulting - a master sales trainer who built her career to a consistent 90% closing ratio in commission-only, one-call close environments. She is the creator of the proven 12-Step Stalwart® Selling System – and it is with this system why her clients see up to a 700% growth in a very short time. Her message is blunt and refreshing: high performance doesn’t require pressure, and manipulation is a dead end if you care about your name, your referrals, and your long-term revenue.

We dig into what separates a salesperson from a professional salesperson, and why the difference matters more than ever. Anyone can enter sales, but not everyone is trained well or showing up with the right intent. We talk about how bad experiences teach prospects to fear salespeople, and how you rebuild safety quickly by asking open-ended questions, listening deeply, and focusing on solving real problems. Tania breaks down her proven, proprietary 12-step Stalwart® Selling System, how it uses behavioral science and psychology without “boxing people in,” and why the goal is for buyers to feel good after they purchase, not regretful on the drive home.

You’ll also hear practical coaching for newer reps: use a script as a starting point, but don’t cling to it so hard that you stop listening. Build instinct by getting real reps in the field, relax into authenticity, and let the prospect do most of the talking. If you want a more ethical, repeatable way to improve your closing ratio, increase sales revenue, and protect your reputation, you’ll get a lot from this conversation. Subscribe, share this with a friend who says they “hate sales,” and leave a review with the one trait you trust most in a salesperson. Learn more about Tania Cazin and her 12-Step Stalwart® Selling System at StalwartSales.com.

Transcript

Sales Should Feel Natural

Speaker 0:00

But that's what I like about my selling system is that it is a natural conversation that it just makes sense to use. It just makes sense. I've never had to twist anyone's arm to use my selling system because it's not manipulative. And it's just it's just a natural conversation.

Welcome And Host Mission

Speaker 1 0:25

Welcome again to the Commission Code Podcast. We appreciate you taking the time to listen and join us here today. We're here to help you increase your business revenue and have time to enjoy it. I'm your host, Morris Sims, and I've been consulting and training business people for, well, let's just say over 40 years. We're focused on increasing revenue and having time to enjoy it. After years as a professional salesperson, I spent 32 years in the corporate world. I retired as Vice President and Chief Learning Officer of the Sales Department of a large insurance company where we designed and built and delivered training for over 12,000 professional salespeople. Now I get to consult one-on-one, helping people grow their business and organize themselves to make the most of the time they have. We also build online courses to support business owners in their work as they strive to build the business that they've always wanted. Our objective is really very simple. It's this we're here to help you get what you want from your business and your life. So right now, let's get on with this episode.

Tanya’s Early Sales Story

Speaker 1 1:37

Tania Cazin is our guest today on the Commission Code for Your Success. And I gotta tell you, you got a you got a special show coming up here because Tania and I both are sales folks. I mean, it's it's sales is in our blood. We love it. We love to talk about it. We love to teach other people how to do it. And uh we got some great things to talk about today. Tania Cazin from Stalwart Sales Training and Consulting - a master sales trainer who built her career to a consistent 90% closing ratio in commission-only, one-call close environments. She is the creator of the proven 12-Step Stalwart® Selling System – and it is with this system why her clients see up to a 700% growth in a very short time. Her message is blunt and refreshing: high performance doesn’t require pressure, and manipulation is a dead end if you care about your name, your referrals, and your long-term revenue. Tania, thank you so much for being here with us today.

Speaker 2:02

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. So thank you, Morris.

Speaker 1 2:06

Tell us a little bit about uh you and sales and your company and what you do.

Speaker 2:11

How far back do I go? Like, what exactly do you want to know?

Speaker 1 2:16

Well, maybe, maybe not from the log cabin in the woods, but uh, you know, take it whatever, wherever you'd like for it to go.

Speaker 2:23

But that's the best part. Are you sure? So, okay, let's see. Okay, so I started selling door-to-door when I was seven years old. I actually make a joke that I probably was selling something to the doctor as I was coming out of the womb. And I sold throughout my childhood, I sold throughout my uh teenage years, I was hustling whatever I can get my hands on. Beanie babies, my school candy. My mom, she used to buy the bulk candy at uh it was back then I was in Canada, it was called Price Club, which is Sam's Club Costco today. And she would buy the bulk candy and I would turn around behind her back, sorry, mom, and I would sell it. And I don't want to brag, but the most money I ever made was $10 off of a pack of nerds. And um, so anyway, so I was all selling stuff. I broke records in school fundraising. I joined a kid's sales club when I was just 10 years old. And I that continued on into my adulthood. And I have a commission only in a one-call close background where you close the sale on the first appointment. And I grew my career to a consistent 90% closing ratio. And so I've always had this reputation of being a superstar salesperson. And then people started asking me how I was able to sell so much in such little time. So I started helping them. And then at one point, I was like, I should start charging for this. And so I kind of, I guess you could say I kind of fell into sales training. And in order to help them, I had to reverse engineer what I was doing. And so I reverse engineered what I was doing, broke it down into steps, which was 12. So today my selling system that you quickly mentioned is called the 12-step Star Wars selling system.

Integrity And The Professional Standard

Speaker 1 4:09

Now, where did that name come from?

Speaker 4:11

You know, I wanted a name that was really powerful and really stood for what I stood for. And that means strong, honest, hardworking. And you know, I, you know, I have this thing where I really want to bring the truth of selling back. And I think that it's really important that salespeople approach everything with honesty and integrity and you know, that they take the approach of they're there to serve the customer and not kind of I don't know if I want to use the word swindle, but like, you know, that they're there to do the right thing. So I just felt like that was the right word. And um, yeah, that's what I named my company.

Speaker 1 4:49

Well, you know, that that's uh we're we're on the same page, I believe, because in in my opinion, it's all about being a professional salesperson. A professional salesperson is there to help the client get what they want, whatever that might be. I'm here to help you get what you want. If I'm there for me, if I'm there because I'm worried about I've got to pay the mortgage this month, my prospects are gonna see it right off the bat, and we're not gonna be able to build a relationship because there won't be any trust. And when there's no trust, by George, there won't be any buying going on. And that's what it really boils down to is we're creating an atmosphere and an opportunity and an environment for someone to choose to buy our product.

Speaker 5:33

Have you ever been in some sales training? Because that was very well said. You know, you did you hit it right on the mark. I mean, I couldn't have said it any better. That's that's exactly what salesmanship is about. And I think, Morris, you used a word that I also like to use. And I don't think salespeople today understand the difference between a salesperson and a professional salesperson. Unfortunately, in this industry today, or not today, it's always been like this. You don't need to have certain credentials to become a salesperson. Right. So if you're gonna be a doctor, you have to go to school, get your degrees, spend however many years, a lot of years in med school, same with the lawyer, same with other professions. But in sales, anyone can join. And that's a beautiful thing. Like it's great, anyone can join, but unfortunately, it kind of brings people of all different kinds, and not everyone has their own intentions.

Speaker 1 6:29

So and we we we get some folks that frankly they've been they've been taught wrong. They've been given a different mindset about what they do and how they should do it. And it's just it the sad part is they generally wind up failing and and not being able to continue in the uh in the profession. And and that's the other side of the thing. It is it is a profession, it is a noble profession. Uh, everybody out there, we're all in sales. I mean, the best salespeople I've ever met are mothers and fathers of toddlers and teenagers. Uh they do a better job of selling than than I ever did. Yeah. Well, at least I'll put it this way. My wife Carla is a better salesperson than I've ever been. If I could just get her to go out and, you know, make some money doing it. But she could sell the kids on anything, and I was lucky to be able to get their attention. So the the point is, we're all in sales. When when I went to New York and was an executive, I was in sales just as much as I was when I was sitting across a prospective family at a kitchen table. Yeah, we're all in sales. The question is whether or not you're doing it with the right mindset.

Speaker 7:40

And the right intentions.

Speaker 1 7:41

Exactly.

Speaker 7:42

Yeah, I agree.

Why People Fear Salespeople

Speaker 7:44

It's so funny because I'm sure you've come across them in your business where you meet people and they go, Oh, I could never do sales. Sales is not for me. I don't like to be pushy. And it's like, what? What about that movie that you watched the last time? If you loved it, did you tell friends about it? Did you tell them to go watch it? That is salesmanship. Like, and they also had to go buy a ticket. So like they had to invest in that movie because you said that it was so great that they should go see it. And so, yeah, I it's it's kind of funny when people tell me, Oh, I can never be in sales. I'm like, you're selling me right now that you can't be in sales. And so I think today, and tell me if you agree with me on this, Morris, is that I think people today um I don't think salesmanship and and selling has really been defined or it's lost its definition over the years. Am I right to say that or wrong to say that? Tell me what you think.

Speaker 1 8:39

Oh, I I think it has changed. I do believe it has changed, and it has certainly changed since the uh since pre-1960. And in today's world, with with all of the stuff that goes on the from technology on down, you know, it's a different world. It's still, though, it is still all about building a relationship of trust and being able to help somebody get whatever it is they need. Hopefully, they need what my product or service might happen to be. And if I'm good at finding new people and talking with them, building trust, and then helping them solve a problem. That's the key, is we got to help folks solve their problems. And if if if I have a solution that's that's my product or service, and I find somebody with the problem that fits, all I've got to do is help them see a way that this solution can help them. And if they choose to buy, then we're in great shape.

Speaker 9:39

Yeah, yeah. And you know, I want to say something in regards to what you said, is that that's why I love when people cold call me. Because I want to hear what you're selling. Like, do you have something that's gonna make my life better? When it's so funny because I still cold call. I definitely still do what I teach. And so when I've cold call, because right now I have a masterclass coming up and I'm sharing it with others, and because I know others are looking for help with their sales in order to increase their closing ratios and their revenue. And it's kind of funny how some people are so bothered that I called them. And I'm like, I have something so good for you. Like, don't you want to know what it is? And so that's always surprising to me because if someone has something that they can share with me that's gonna make my life better, then I'm all ears. So it's really fascinating that you know, today people are so scared of salespeople. Do you find that people are scared of salespeople?

Speaker 1 10:35

I mean, I it's it's been that way my whole career. They've had a bad experience somewhere along the line. Somebody has said, gee, Mr. Sims, what can I do today to earn your business? Yeah. And then they you know, boxed them in a corner with with questions, and you wound up they bought something that didn't work, and then the salesperson was nowhere to be found. They've all got stories like that. We all do, and and that has colored their perception of anyone who walks in that has the the moniker of salesperson, and uh, you know, it's a question of being able to build that relationship, gain the trust in a very professional manner with the mindset that I'm here to help you, and I'm not here to take advantage of you in any way, shape, form, or fashion. Once we build that relationship, then everything else is okay.

Speaker 11:32

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 11:34

You know, so I I think that's what it really boils down to is we've lost to some extent the skill and the art of building a relationship. And probably this technology hasn't helped us get there, but uh, because it's it's just too easy to jump into technology and not be one-on-one with people, and that's that's where you learn how to build relationships. What was that book? Uh Everything You Need to Know You Learned in Kindergarten? Something like that.

Speaker 12:08

I have not read that.

Speaker 1 12:12

Basically, you know, I mean, you as in kindergarten, you had to learn how to make friends, yeah. And that's still what we do today, and that's certainly what a professional salesperson does. Every time I talk to somebody, it's whether you buy from me or not, hopefully I'm gonna at least leave here with a new friend.

Speaker 12:28

Right. But I also don't want you to buy from the competition. I want you to buy from me, just put that out there.

Speaker 1 12:34

Of course, of course. I mean, that's that's still the we're we're still in this turn of living. Uh there's no way around that. That's still the bottom line. The question is, am I gonna try and manipulate you into doing something because it's better for me? And that's where the amateurs come in, and that's what the amateurs do and professionals don't do.

Speaker 12:53

Right. And

The 12-Step Stalwart Sales System

Speaker 12:54

not to, you know, give a little shout out to my selling system, but that's what I like about my selling system, is that it is a natural conversation um that it just makes sense to use. It just makes sense. I've never had to twist anyone's arm to use my selling system because it's not manipulative. And it's just it's just a natural conversation, you know, it's 12 steps that are it's a framework that incorporates behavioral science, biopsychology, personal development. It teaches you what to do, what to say, how to say it, who to say it to, and how to keep your message very, very simple to where you can naturally lead the customer or the prospect into the clothes and that push them. And I find today, because I, you know, I'm keeping up with what's going on out there with the sales trading space. And there's a lot of people using more of a manipulative, manipulative approach. And I don't like that. And I also think that it's it doesn't work for everybody, you know. You can also, you can always sell, there's a sort of sucker born every second, right? So there's gonna be someone that you're gonna be able to sell. But I don't believe in in using sales techniques that only work for a certain kind. I believe in doing things the right way and to, you know, make the customer, the buyer feel good about what they bought. Because when you do use that manipulative approach, which again, I'm very against, they you tend to have more chargebacks. So they get home, they talk to their friends and family, and they're like, What did I just do? And that's not the feeling I want to give my customers.

Speaker 1 14:29

So no, I mean and and a professional salesperson can't afford to try and build a business based on that, because you're not gonna get repeat business. And in in the world of sales, it's all about building a clientele that's gonna stick with me and be with me when they when they have a problem that I can solve, they're gonna call me because of our relationship. And if I manipulated them or pushed or pulled or made them not feel good about what they were doing, they're not gonna come back to me. I'm not gonna get a repeat sale out of the deal, and I'm not gonna make a friend, they're gonna not be my friend after that. So I don't want to do that. Professional doesn't want to do that.

Speaker 15:11

Oh, no, and it also hurts your reputation. Like for me in selling, and I feel the same way. That's all we have is our reputation. So it's so important that I'm clean, I'm like integrity all the way, which that's how I was raised to begin with. But it's so important because that's all I have. I have my word that I'm gonna help you with whatever it is that I'm selling, which they obviously is my sales training and my selling system. But I need you to trust that. And if the trust is broken, you're not A, you're not gonna work with me just like you said again. And then B, you're gonna tell other people at some point it kind of spreads like wildfire. And then I'm, you know, I don't know where do I go work?

Speaker 1 15:49

Yeah, exactly. So exactly. So, anyways, yeah, no, a hundred a hundred percent. And that's why you ask open-ended questions, you don't ask closed-ended questions to box somebody into to saying yes. You don't uh you just don't do that. You're you're trying to build a relationship here where I can figure out what your problem is. If I can find out what your problem is and I have a solution, then we have something where I can help you solve a problem. And that's that's the whole intent of a professional sales interaction. So Tania, tell me more about your sales system. What else can you tell us about that?

Speaker 16:33

Well, it's my life's work. Um, I mentioned that it's backed by behavioral science. The big thing about my system is that it's not just backed by behavioral science. I personally have over 51,000 hours of study in behavioral science, psychology, personal development, professional salesmanship. And my studies go back to the late 1800s and the early and mid-1900s. So I'm not trained by people that you see on the internet today, unless maybe they're 100 years old or something.

Speaker 1 17:01

And um, well, I'm not 100, but I'm close. Okay.

Speaker 17:06

I guessed you for 25.

Speaker 1 17:08

Yeah, right. Okay, moving on.

unknown 17:11

Yeah.

Speaker 17:11

Um, I tell myself I'm 25 too, but oh, I'm 18, honey. Oh, there you go. You don't even want to be 21?

Speaker 1 17:18

No, no, 18's fine. You could you could drink alcohol in Alabama at 18 by the time I was, yeah. Okay.

Speaker 17:24

Oh, really? You know, Canada's like that too. Beck is, yeah, yeah. Okay. So uh the big thing with my selling system, uh, or not the big thing, one of the other big things is that it's also field tested for the last 27 years. So this is not, you know, research that I did or something I heard, or it's not uh a system that's borrowed, stolen, licensed, franchised from anyone else. It's my proprietary selling system. Obviously, I didn't invent the psychology of human beings. It's like someone coming out saying, well, I invented how to date. Well, no, you didn't. You know, but my selling system, it's been, I've it's been in the field. I've been doing it for 27 plus years. And it's what grew my career to that 90% consistent closing ratio. And it's why and how my clients see up to a 700% growth in a very, very short time. Um, yeah. So uh the thing with my selling system compared to others, because there's a lot of really great selling systems out there, but they have holes. They have gaps. So my selling system fills in those gaps, fills in those holes. It's a complete, full selling system that allows you to go from start to finish. And the finish means you've closed the sale, they bought from you, not your competition, and you didn't leave any money on the table. And I am also uh I hate to call myself an expert, but uh can I call myself an expert?

Speaker 1 18:51

You can you can on this show.

Speaker 18:54

Egocentric, I'm an expert. Well, anyways, I'm really good at cold calling. I've done personally over 250,000 cold calls. So uh cold calls are also my specialty. And uh yeah, that's that's kind of the thing. One of my favorite testimonials, I have a lot of really great testimonials, but one of my favorites is I taught a group of um, it was all men. There was one female, and I had a couple, it was an HVAC space, and I had a couple stubborn, one more stubborn than the other. And he said to me, I think it was on the first day, he said to me that, you know, what I'm saying so far sounds great, but he's gonna stick with, and this is not verbatim, but he's gonna stick with what he's currently doing because the way he's doing business, he's in a small town and he's in the south, works really well for him. And if he, you know, sees something he likes, so of course he'll he'll take that. But overall, he's not changing the way that he's selling. And I said, No problem. Uh, if you see something you like and you want to incorporate it, go for it. No problem. And so, long story short, it was a three-day workshop. And so the fourth day, so now we're done, he calls me first thing in the morning and he says to me, I just want to let you know you're right. I was like, okay, you know what? Say that again, say that again. He goes, I just want to let you know that you're right. You and your selling system made so much sense that I'm gonna change the way I do business because of you and your system. And so that's where I say I don't have to twist anyone's arm to use it because it's just you know, it's common sense, nice, normal conversation. It's just with more of a persuasive approach and it incorporates uh the psychological factors that you need to have the customer um a understand what you're offering, and then B help them make that decision to partner with you versus anyone else. And this is obviously assuming that it's a good fit for them. And if it's not a good fit, generally you know that in the beginning of the sales process, not

Practical Advice For New Sellers

Speaker 20:58

at the end.

Speaker 1 20:58

So Tania, I need something practical. Give us something that that you would you got a brand new salesperson in front of you, and you you know, you're they say, gee, tell me something I can use today that's gonna help me in sales. Give us give us something practical that that folks get out there could actually take away and use today.

Speaker 21:21

So I have a lot of answers for this question, but I'm gonna go with one that I don't think is talked about enough, that I do talk about is well, you know, with my clients, is I don't think salespeople, especially I don't think salespeople, and this would be my advice for a brand new salesperson, is to listen to your instinct, listen to your gut. I think so many people are like, I need sales training, I need sales training. And yes, you do need sales training, but you also have a common sense, well, not everybody, but most people have like a common sense and like you know, some have a Um like when I say common sense, like they have a common sense, but they have a gut feeling, like a second brain. And I don't think I think people today are so I need to know everything before I get out into the field. And really, if you just listen to your inner voice, what it can help me with this, what is it, inner voice, like your gut? Like if you listen inside, deep down inside, and you just relax a little bit and you just listen with intent of what your prospect is saying to you, you can actually help them, you can actually help guide them to where they want to go by just being um by just kind of picking up on what you nationally pick up on. Does that make any sense? I don't think I makes me think it does.

Speaker 1 22:47

It does. It means don't be locked into some script of some type somewhere along the line.

Speaker 22:54

Well, you do I do believe in a script. Like I you definitely want a script, but I no, no, you you've got to have something to start with.

Speaker 1 23:00

I don't I don't disagree at all. Yeah, but when that's my focus when I'm sitting in front of or talking with a prospect, I don't have time to listen. I'm too worried about what I'm gonna say next. Yeah, yes, you've got to stop and and you and let your gut talk and listen, which is probably the that's the one skill that we could all improve on, I think, is being able to realize that as in sales, if I'm in front of a sale in front of a prospective buyer for an hour, you know, 75 minutes of that 60 minutes needs to be them talking, not me.

Speaker 23:42

Agree. I think where I'm going with what I was trying to explain, which clearly I couldn't explain it exactly how I had it in my head, was that if they can listen to their gut and you know, and just relax. Um, and then that I think also allows them to show a little bit more authenticity. I think everyone's trying to be someone that they're not. And the reason why people, one of the reasons why people will buy from you is because they like you. And today more than ever, authenticity is I mean, it's always been important, but it's it's more important today than ever before because we're in a world of people trying to be someone that they're not. And so if they can really listen to that inner voice and say, you know what, I'm just here to help and I'm I'm I'm human, they're human, and we're here to have a conversation so I can share with them what I have and see if it's a good fit for them and see if they want to come on board. Uh that allows them, them being relaxed allows them to be more of themselves. And I think today, so that's what I would tell a new person is you know, of course, listen and then try to allow yourself to shine through like who you really are, and don't be focused. Yeah.

Speaker 1 24:57

And we're not talking about some kind of plastic charisma here. We're talking about being yourself. Folks have to know you, like you, and trust you in order to do business with you, whatever business you're in and whatever position you're in in business. They've got to know, like, and trust you. And that's not gonna happen if I'm trying to be somebody else or I've got some kind of a uh a vision of a plastic facade that I need to to to show to people. I've got I gotta be me. And if they don't like me, and okay, well, yeah, you know, it's that old thing, Tania. It's it's uh some people will, some people won't. So next, yes, and that's the way you have to approach this thing, is you gotta get out there and do it because I could probably have a 90% sales closing ratio. Hate that word close. Uh uh 90% ratio being able to help people buy if I only talk to five folks. If I talk to a whole lot more than that, maybe it's the percentage won't be that high, but it'll still be much more successful doing it for a hundred times than doing it for 10.

Speaker 26:06

Yeah. For the record, mine is more than five people. I just throw that out there just in case, just in case any listeners are confused and need some clarification.

Speaker 1 26:14

Um, you're right. You're right.

Speaker 26:17

Yeah, I think you know, I actually had a brand new sales rep and they wanted help with their sales. And I said, I need you to go out there and fall on your face about 15 times, and then we'll talk sales training because you need you need to build that instinct, you know, and that's the word I was looking for earlier. Gosh. English is my second language, so I think that's my excuse for today. But yes, is to go out there, relax, be yourself, listen to that gut, and build that instinct. That's what I was looking for earlier. Um, because and that's something that um I don't really know if you can train an instinct. You know, I can train you a lot of things, I can teach you a lot of things, but the instinct is something that you're gonna build in the field on your own. Um, there's a certain wisdom that comes with that as well. And I think that that's why I was so and I still am successful in my closing and why my clients see such massive results with my selling system, is because I and also that's also why I will never hire another trainer to train my selling system, at least not, you know, under me. Maybe when I'm dead, someone will teach it. Um is because I have studied human behavior for so long. And when I'm teaching my students and my clients and they have a question, I know exactly how to answer it. Because sometimes they're asking a question and they're hoping for an answer that this is actually not the answer that they're looking that they need to have. They need to have this answer over here. But that only comes with someone who's built that instinct in the field for decades, you know. So, anyways.

How To Contact Tanya

Speaker 1 27:53

And Tanianiania, tell us how we get in touch with you. If I want to learn more from you and get into that 12-step step stalwart system, how do I find you? What do I do?

Speaker 28:04

So you can go to my regular website, which is stalwart sales.com, s-t-a-l, w ar t sales.com, or you can go, I'm have a masterclass coming up. You can go to sellmoreinless time.com. That's sellmoreinless time.com. And that brings you right to the landing page for the master class. And at the very bottom of that page, there's a button that says enter full site, and you can go to that website directly that way.

Speaker 1 28:36

So outstanding. Outstanding. Tiny, thank you so much for being here with us today.

Speaker 28:42

Thank you for having me. This was so fun.

Speaker 1 28:44

It was. It was a blast. I appreciate it. Everybody else out there, go out and meet somebody new and have a great week. We'll see you next time.

Closing Thoughts And Next Steps

Speaker 1 28:56

Well, that does it for this episode of the Commission Code Podcast. This is the place where we want to help you find the Commission Code to success in your business. Remember, go to MorrisSims.com for more information. And in the meantime, hey, have a great week. Get out there and meet somebody new, and we'll see you again next time, right here on the Commission Code. Best wishes, I'm Morris Sims.